wholesomeness
Must just quickly blog this while J is reading to F, and M is looking after A while I 'go and post a letter'! (this initial thing is a bit strange, no?)
I was just pondering about the whole computers and children thing, looking at the reports I mentioned earlier, and trying to decide how, if at all, I should respond to the somewhat confrontational reply I got to my 'fools' gold' posting on the group, when I suddenly noticed the sun had come out and A had woken from his nap. I realised I should really being doing something wholesome with the children instead of pontificating about it. So we got well wrapped up and put wellies on and went out to 'Windy Gate Bridge', which is the place we go to to admire the view and watch tractors and the like. Basically to get us outside and into the fresh air and get a bit of exercise. We also found a few more nice leaves for some rubbings - I was originally hoping to make some cards, but was not that happy with the earlier attempts. Well, F enjoyed it, even though there was no tractor action, but A cried nearly the whole time; well is was really windy. After, we made choc-chip muffins at F's request. (A much more wholesome experience (hopefully) than trying to distract my attention from the computer.) Loads of counting, adding, weighing, etc was inadvertantly done under the auspices of making something yummy! Evidently, A preferred bimbling around the kitchen floor, emptying cupboards, to going out. Beginning to doubt the wisdom of storing all the children's craft materials in the bottom cupboard of the kitchen dresser. I've never seen anyone literally spitting (multicoloured) feathers before!
M has only just twigged that I am not still posting a letter.
posted by Rosie @ 16:23
12 Comments:
Initials being confusing is why my kids have blog names... ;)
Possibly discussing minimising the uses of computers on an email list is not going to work too well? Just a thought. :-) I'm sure that I use my machine far too much - but then I use it as a lifeline on the days when I feel stuck in my head iykwim. It has also been instrumental in introducing me to many of my real life friends, not least the father of my children!
Small likes to look at piccies on the puter, Big goes through phases of playing on it for hours and not going near it for days. I think it evens out in the end.
I ought to get my kids outside more often, but that either means climbing into the car to drive somewhere (which I'd rather not do daily) or walking through the estate, which we do regularly, but I find somewhat boring and depressing. Wish we lived slightly further out into the country really.
I fairly deliberatly kept Hannah's computer use to a minimum (ie, none at all, really) until very recently. I felt pretty unusual amongst HEors by taking that stand, and also rather hypocritical, given that mine has a sort of umbilical cord thingy attached to it :-) But then I don't give her wine either, and I like that, as well;-) She has never been particularly interested in it, so it hasn't been hard to enforce, in any way. It's more I never introduced her to it. I was probably influenced though by Jane Healy's "Failure to Connect", which I read when she was around 3. Re the initials -I do find it harder to read tbh, when people use them, but it's so personal. I don't feel that Hannah is exposed to any risk by using a name (which may not, as far as a surfer knows), even be her real name, so I feel relaxed about using it. The problem with blog names though is that I want to use them IRL as well, so that can be problematic.
As someone who is interested in Steiner/Waldorf philosophy we really minimise the children's use of the computer. Both boys have a blog, but recently we have increasingly been moving away from the children using a computer because I am concerned that it stifles creative play.
For the same reason we don't have TV on during the day and in the evening the children only watch particular programs (for example History of the British Isles) for about an hour maximum (if at all). I am particular about the toys my children have and don't like buzzy, flashing light things.
ooooh - and noticed you attend a Steiner group - where are you in W. Yorks? My e-mail is dottyspots@ninnynoodlenoo.com. I'd love to know - especially as we are now seriously looking to move and I'd really like to go somewhere where I could attend a group like this or be part of a Steiner home-ed co-op, not least because I have so much to learn and it always helps if you can chat to other people who are inspired by the same ed. philosophy.
Alison, you have been answered by dottyspots ;) I think playing on a computer is a very different thing to creative play, which I feel is cruicial to a young child's development. I am quite interested in what the Alliance for childhood reports on computers have to say, although I always try to put these things in perspective.
This has all sparked off an interesting debate in our household about play, the nature and purpose thereof. Surely play is about children practising the skills they need as adults? So imaginative play helps them to grow and learn (role plays and so on), often drawing or painting and so on is expressive of emotions and helps them to develop fine motor skills - surely in this day and age, developing computer skills is extremely useful, and therefore playing on a computer is a good way to play?
I hasten to add that I know very little of the steiner approach (only what I've read on various websites) and am not trying to be offensive or flame baiting in anyway, just wondering if perhaps the world has moved on a little from when he made his statements?
The world has moved on a bit - and some of what Steiner said may seem a little archaic, however, personal observation has contributed to us moving away from using the computer for games (or education) with the kids.
Computer games are often quite narrowly designed. Even recent innovations such as Fable (RPG game) still only have a particular number of choices you can take - yet being out in the garden with RPG - well, I've yet to see a child run out of ideas there :0)
Computers work on programmed data and very rarely (if at all) allow for the ingenuity of a human brain. When working with a computer a child has to learn to adapt to computer (programming is a particular language, there are particular ways of getting a job done). This is a 'closed' relationship.
However give a child a box and it can be a house, a car, a train, a cave, a table - any number of things. Fir cones can be treasure, money, apples, earrings, juggling balls, decorations - the list goes on.
The child adapts the object to the purpose they want, rather than adapting their purpose (or rather the method of carrying out their purpose) to the object. If that makes sense.
Had some wine here, so starting to ramble a bit - you see, bloody text on a screen, s'never gonna be as good as a face-to-face discussion!
I just meant if youre doing one you cant be dong the other. Unless you do as my niece did and sit on the computer tower going "horsey, horsey"!!!
I dont think the computer skills that a small child can learn are very useful until much later on, when they can be easily picked up.
No, Rudolf Steiner didn't say anything about computers, as they werent invented,(LOL) but he did say a lot about the more complicated a toy, the less you have to use your imagination to play with it. iow the cardboard box syndrome, I suppose! And about the effects of a child's environment on phyisical development. I think a lot of his ideas were universal and can still be applied today, although it is difficult not to be dogmatic, which is missing the point.
Hope i havent talked myself into a corner again! just can't help myself from trying to answer difficult questions;0)
Thanks for posting that link :0) I'll have to dig out one I've got somewhere which compares the differences and similarities of Montessori and Steiner - almost as Yin & Yang/Masculine and Feminine, it's an interesting read. Montessori and Steiner: A Pattern of Reverse SymmetriesIn Waldorf schools children also do practical activities (as in the child cutting up a carrot in the Montessori school). The emphasis on pre-7s is that they are learning to 'be in their bodies' accustomising to being on the physical plane (yep - anthroposophy creeping in here). Therefore the emphasis on simply 'being' as opposed to academia. Physical and fantasy play, where the child explores themself and the possibilities in the world and practical work, sweeping the floor, washing carrots etc.
Indeed, although there are Waldorf-inspired businesses selling 'lace-up toys' etc. I seem to remember reading that Steiner said that there was no substitute for doing the real thing - why use a toy when you could lace a shoe. TBH, I'd prefer the lovely little apple and worm on the end of a thread toy to lace through - but hey, Waldorf-inspired, not necessarily doing it by the book here :0)
Having had the experience of children going through the mainstream school system I found it cold and clinical in it's approach - overly academic - I guess Steiner is as far away from that as is possible and probably why it appeals to us, whilst still maintaining some structure - I have Aspie kids who get very stressed if they don't know what's happening day-to-day and like to plan out their day by the hour. It also helps to provide a counterpoint to my eldest's very logical mind :0)
That's the beauty of HE - so adaptable :0)
Yes, I agree. I did mean to add that its whatever works for you and your kids. I tend to dip into Steiner and Montessori ideas whenever it suits me and what I want to do anyway. I think its an instinctive thing, anyway, when you're with your kids all day you just find the ways of doing things that works. And different styles can work better for different kids at different times, eg, my 7yo dd was well into Steiner until 5 and is now well into montessori, whereas my 4yo son seemed better suited to Monte, but is not aversed to a bit of steiner. (this is getteing daft!!!!)
The one thing I notice though, is that I'm quite new to HE and find the Autonomy thing a bit hard to follow (with younger kids). I mean, you've got to draw the line somewhere, dont you, and I'm used to being the one who makes the decisions, ultimately, although of course allowing freedom for the child to learn whatever they need at any given time, which only they know. What I mean is, there are some decisions you have to make for them, as they have to be protected from harmful experiences.
Yes, I agree. I did mean to add that its whatever works for you and your kids. I tend to dip into Steiner and Montessori ideas whenever it suits me and what I want to do anyway. I think its an instinctive thing, anyway, when you're with your kids all day you just find the ways of doing things that works. And different styles can work better for different kids at different times, eg, my 7yo dd was well into Steiner until 5 and is now well into montessori, whereas my 4yo son seemed better suited to Monte, but is not aversed to a bit of steiner. (this is getteing daft!!!!)
The one thing I notice though, is that I'm quite new to HE and find the Autonomy thing a bit hard to follow (with younger kids). I mean, you've got to draw the line somewhere, dont you, and I'm used to being the one who makes the decisions, ultimately, although of course allowing freedom for the child to learn whatever they need at any given time, which only they know. What I mean is, there are some decisions you have to make for them, as they have to be protected from harmful experiences.
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